Pissed Off
Ok, I want a show of hands.
Alex's mum is allowing and even approving of this 28 year old fellow to take the train down from Paris to Clermont-Ferrand each weekend to spend time with Alex's FIFTEEN YEAR OLD SISTER who just turned 15 in August. She has no idea why Alex and I are upset about this. She doesn't even supervise the visits. She goes off to her boyfriend's house and lets Kate do whatever at the apartment (or in that guy's hotel room). She has no idea of his phone number, his address, or even his fucking last name.
Kate, Alex's sister, thinks that we should not interfere and should stop saying her mum is bad. This is, by the way, the same mum who didn't know her daughter had only two pairs of shoes and that one of them hurt.
Kate's mum thinks Alex and I are overreacting. She worried that I had the bird flu from Asia, but she doesn't worry about the PEDOPHILIAC with her daughter. Why? Let's review my thoughts!
a) she would rather be a friend than a mom to her daughter
b) it would involve her taking time away from her own selfish pursuits with her boyfriend at his village home to actually spend time with her daughter and put her daughter on a high priority
c) hey, the man has money (as Alex pointed out: so does Michael Jackson!), and money is Alex's mum's god. So, he must not be a pedophile if he has money. And even if he does have sex with her, maybe if she's lucky they'll get married and she can get money off him too
I love you Alex, but I'm just furious at your mum right now.
So, blogworld...what do YOU think? Should a 28 year old man be allowed to spend weekends alone with a 15 year old girl? Oh, and did I mention that Kate is emotionally less mature than a typical 15 yr old too? So, really, emotionally? He's dating a 13 year old. I want feedback! Come on!
Alex's mum is allowing and even approving of this 28 year old fellow to take the train down from Paris to Clermont-Ferrand each weekend to spend time with Alex's FIFTEEN YEAR OLD SISTER who just turned 15 in August. She has no idea why Alex and I are upset about this. She doesn't even supervise the visits. She goes off to her boyfriend's house and lets Kate do whatever at the apartment (or in that guy's hotel room). She has no idea of his phone number, his address, or even his fucking last name.
Kate, Alex's sister, thinks that we should not interfere and should stop saying her mum is bad. This is, by the way, the same mum who didn't know her daughter had only two pairs of shoes and that one of them hurt.
Kate's mum thinks Alex and I are overreacting. She worried that I had the bird flu from Asia, but she doesn't worry about the PEDOPHILIAC with her daughter. Why? Let's review my thoughts!
a) she would rather be a friend than a mom to her daughter
b) it would involve her taking time away from her own selfish pursuits with her boyfriend at his village home to actually spend time with her daughter and put her daughter on a high priority
c) hey, the man has money (as Alex pointed out: so does Michael Jackson!), and money is Alex's mum's god. So, he must not be a pedophile if he has money. And even if he does have sex with her, maybe if she's lucky they'll get married and she can get money off him too
I love you Alex, but I'm just furious at your mum right now.
So, blogworld...what do YOU think? Should a 28 year old man be allowed to spend weekends alone with a 15 year old girl? Oh, and did I mention that Kate is emotionally less mature than a typical 15 yr old too? So, really, emotionally? He's dating a 13 year old. I want feedback! Come on!
posted by Kira | 1:41 PM
23 Comments:
weeeeeeeeee, first replier!
no offence to alex's mum but its absolutley insane to let this guy see a 15 year old! and a young 15 at that! theres something wrong with a guy of 28 even thinking of spending time with a girl nearly young enough to be his daughter.
theres a difference between maybe talking to a girl that age, being polite etc but as for being (probably) intimate with her? thats sick.
This might be a case for social services. If he is really sleeping with this girl he could be charged with statutory rape.
But I don't know what evidence you would need. The mother sounds completely daft, self-centered and has probably the maturity level of a 13 year old herself. Reading about parents like that just pisses me off.
As I said about M's situation with the pedophiliac youth minister...THIS SHIT IS CRAZY! At what point does a supposed adult decide "Hmm, it would be fun to fuck with a kid for a while!" This whole idea pisses me off to no end. Kira, I really do think these fucknuts would be the perfect candidates for the trial version of the sterilization gun.
Alex, I love ya, but I gotta agree that your mom is so wrong here. Fifteen year olds are BABIES!! Totally clueless, naive babies! Only a fucking pervert would even consider doing something like this. And sadly, we've met one or two of the fucking perverts who do this, so we know exactly why they do what they do. GRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!
Cookie--yes, I agree...any 28 yr old who can't find ADULTS to date or hang out with every single weekend has issues. We have no idea "if" he's being intimate with her, but shit, his mom goes away for the weekend and leaves her daughter WITH HIM. What the hell else would happen?
Schauml--Here, I can guarantee you it'd be a DSS issue. I used to work for the DSS in SC as a foster care worker. But in France? Alex looked it up...the age of consent is 15...sigh. I think we need to find out if the age of consent is 15 if the 15 yr old is with another TEEN or not. Sometimes there are special rules when the adult is obviously a pedophile predator.
Amanda--oh, I am so with you on the 15 yr olds are totally clueless, naive babies. Kate is worse that way than your average 15 yr old too. I can see her having sex and not being even really aware they were doing it. GAAAHHH! What I would do to move her here with me!
Grrrrrrrrrrrr
Don't worry. I so agree. I had a long talk with my mother but she is too clueless to see. She met the guy, so did my father, and they both didn't do more... She has no idea who this guy is.
I would never have know anything if she hadn't let it slip during a conversation... The only proof she could give me that nothing bad would happen, was that she felt he was a good person. This comming from the woman who married my father (I finaly sent him to the hospital when I was 20 :) )
My mother isn't that bright. And she is acting shamefuly stupid in this case.
Ps: age of consent really is 15 in France... That is sooooo wrong!
*is pissed*
Is that legal? Okay, in France, it is. But morally. With ya, Kira. Having taught 15-year-olds for a couple of years, I know they shouldn't be left alone with a toaster, much less an older man with perve on his mind.
Gawd - I wouldn't let a boy older than around 18 anywhere near a 15 year old girl!
Twenty eight is very, very old when compared with 15. They are at completely different emotional states. Girls that age might consent to anything, but they're not at an age where they can make rational decisions about love and sex.
Men that age have a real problem if they're seeking relationships with children.
When I was 17, I dated a 26-year-old much to the disdain of my parents. I, of course, thought I was soooo cool for it and the sad thing is, I corrupted him. But the point is now that I'm 27, I cannot understand for the life of me why the hell he wanted to date me. Sex. That's the only thing I can think of and I was a mature 17-year-old. But really. When he was graduating from high school, I was getting out of 3rd grade. There's some major ick factor there. It's different when you're older, when you're 15 though... That's just wrong. And it's wrong of him, even if he's a decent guy, to not let her be young. Wow, that was a lot of rambling from someone with too much experience in said arena...
okay, wow do i feel like a perv. i last year when i was 33 i dated a boy who was 21 (and then turned 22).
but seriously, a 28 year old man is up to no good if he is wanting to 'spend time' with a 15 year old girl. what could they possibly have in common? the whole thing sounds shady and i totally agree with you.
Haven't been here in a while so sorry to hop in and give an opinion off the cuff -- but damn! I'd be pissed too -- something is definitely not on the up and up.
Okay, as the single mother of a teenage girl, I feel qualified to take on this question. First of all (sorry Alex), I believe your answer lies in (d) all of the above. And while I admit that it is difficult and stressful to manage a social life when you have kids, KIDS COME FIRST! A 28 year old guy can't have anything in common with a barely 15 year old girl. The age different puts them so many worlds apart it's not even worth talking about. 15 isn't even close to being an adult. My daughter is 18 and I wouldn't let HER date a 28 year old guy. At 28, he's nearly 30 - an age where he should be settled in a career, starting a family, be watching his 401K with an eye toward the future. At 15 she's a freshman or sophomore in high school. She's buying pimple cream and just starting to wear make-up. She doesn't know what a 401K is. She's not thinking about retirement; she hasn't even begun to consider a career path yet. What the hell do they talk about?? EXACTLY!! Therein lies the problem.
Alex honey--I love you, and I'm sorry.
EM--I know. I've dealt with enough 15 yr olds to know this can't be good myself!
Angie--well, thank God that she sees the men her age or younger as better. You won't have these worries! I, too, would rather die than let Ariana date a 28 yr old when she's 15.
Jezzy--see, that's about my cut off too. If he can still be in high school with her, then he's the right age for 15.
MR--you were a mature 17 yr old, but Kate is an immature 15 year old. She's mentally like a 13 yr old (if she's lucky). I was a mature 17 yr old, too, but my parents would have shot a 26 yr old who showed up at my door, just for the record ;)
Sandra--two CONSENTING ADULTS are a whole different ballgame. Alex is nine years younger than me. The happiest married couple I know has 14 yrs between them...but they were ADULTS when they started dating. I dated a man 11 yrs younger than me once, too...BOTH as adults, just like you. There's less of an issue with age the older you get.
SS--yes, I'm very pissed. Kate needs to be protected, and nobody over there wants to do it.
Mandy--yes, that's part of my concern! Other than their love for world of warcraft, what can they have in common? Sigh. And she is so innocent she won't know they have had sex until somebody tells her they have....
SC--academic debate aside, we are not talking about an exceptionally mature 15 yr old and a 28 yr old with the mentality of a teen for a variety of reasons. We are talking about a very naive, innocent girl who has the maturity of a 13 yr old and who is NOT smart enough to figure out what is going on at any point and time until it is too late. She is so easily manipulated that it's not even funny. Age of consent in general? I agree. Some 20 yr olds are too young to have sex, and I've met a 16 yr old or two who came across as in her 20's in maturity. I'm not even going to debate that the age of consent itself is a murky issue. What I WILL state emphatically is that this immature 15 yr old will be damaged for life if the relationship has already gone too far for her emotions to handle.
My eyesight is not what it used to be. When I first read the passage I thought you were upset because Alex was dating his fifteen year old sister and you were upset with the mother. At that point I thought you had way too many issues for me to comment.
Now that I've reread your passage, I cancelled the call to the loony bin on your behalf and I have to say I agree. I would worry about 15 and 18 as being too much of a separation, depending on the individuals in question. I've seen worse, though. One woman I met told me she'd dated a cop when she was sixteen. I assumed he was a young cop, but then I met him and discovered he would have been in his late thirties (at least) at the time.
When I was twelve, I visited relatives in extremely rural Missouri. My uncle (only a few years older than me) took me to a pool hall where I saw a cute girl my age. I tried to talk to her, but her adult boyfriend ran over and got in my face, shouting that he was going to kick my ass for messing with his girl. The place closed and he took his girlfriend into a nearby alley for a romantic evening. I was later told the guy was twenty-six.
Ick.
If it's not illegal, there's really nothing you can do about it. Sadly, someone will have to clean up this mess AFTER it's been made.
I can see how, in France, this can be marginally tolerable since a) relationships with very young girls have been romanticized in film (the lover) b) trajedy is always romantic c) older men would shake it off with a wink wink and d) the social mores regarding sexual relationships are very loose. But the bottom line is that it's just wrong.
Ick ick ick ick ick!!!!!
oooh! i can't wait to see kira's response to gawlimeyman!
GBM--we're not talking about whether or not one culture eats dogs and one culture eats cows and others find this offensive. We are talking about a dynamic that, according to all the research I encountered during my days at DSS, will largely harm the CHILD.
Stress child.
Many of Alex's friends are not happy with this arrangement, so please do not insist to me that even though 15 is the age of consent, most of the French are cool with this age gap. MOST French believe that a younger woman is great, but note the WOMAN PART. Kate is a teen, and an immature teen at that. We are not looking at an adult/adult relationship...then the age doesn't matter so much. We are looking at a teen who is a rather immature teen dating a much older man.
Once upon a time, the majority of people thought the world was flat. That didn't make it so. Sometimes, you can blow something off on culture, and sometimes you can't. This situation is one of those times. Kate is not a girl who is emotionally ready for this sort of relationship (or barely one with a teen her own age). The studies show that there IS a point when sexualization of a younger teen by an older person (regardless of gender) damages said younger child emotionally. That's the last thing she needs.
I love Kate. If she were my daughter, I'd protect her. The problem is that NOBODY OVER THERE CARES, GBM!!! No one has found out shit about the man at all. Mum and dad met him once at a meal. The end. They don't know shit about him, not his phone number, not his last name, nothing, and they are letting their daughter run off with him for weekends. So, even if he IS a saint, how would we KNOW?
And a saint, really! a 28 yr old male who has nothing better to do than hook up with a 15 yr old girl every weekend? Doesn't he have any other life at all? why does he have to go to a 15 yr old who is so very young emotionally?
No, I have to say, I strongly disagree with you GBM. This is not a "It's their culture and they are fine with it" issue. Most of Alex's friends are NOT cool with it. It's just his freaky mom who would rather not be a parent. And again, research shows that this dynamic is not a healthy one for a young teen.
Boy I sure am glad that I got to this post a day late. Most of my questions have already been answered. The main one was the culture thing, but I didn't know and you've covered that.
SOOOO, you know where I stand on this. I think. Remember when I was bitching about my 13 y/o sister-in-law having her 18 y/o boyfriend spend the night? Yeah, it's not cool at all. And the situation you've written about is even worse!! What can the two of them possibly have in common? How does something like that even happen? Fucking sick!!! SICK SICK SICK I SAY!!
Have I told you how sexy you look when you're mad?? hee hee =)
WHAAAAAAAAAAATTTTTT!!!!
what the fuck! how the hell can the mother allow this? this is complete bullshit. are they doing anything sexually? have you asked Alex? god i hope not. he needs to be locked up. can you talk to the girls father maybe?
April--yes, culturally, the list of FRENCH PEOPLE who are horrified with this situation being allowed include...every last one of Alex's VERY FRENCH FRIENDS since if you recall Alex himself is FRENCH AND HORRIFIED (one FRENCH friend there has even threatened to kill said pervert) and Alex's mum's VERY FRENCH BOYFRIEND. Alex's mum won't listen to said boyfriend (she rules him, not vice versa, so that's that). The older man/younger woman dynamic is very allowed in French culture and accepted. If Kate were 18, nobody would blink there. But she's not 18. The only people who seem to not care are Alex's parents. Oh, and of course Kate and the boyfriend. And thanks! good thing I look sexy when I'm pissed 'cause I'm pissed too much...hahahah!
Pickett--of course they met on the net. They met through World of Warcraft. Yay.
Ailyn--I knew the dad of small girls would feel like that ;) They are evasive about the sexually active thing, but seeing as they've seen each other for two months now before we even found out (since they're in another country, we could not have found out until we were told), and in that time they've been left alone for many, many weekends, I just hope that Kate is using birth control. Kate knows how to use it; hell, it's so part of French culture to screw that there are actual vending machines for condoms in the streets. I just hope she IS. I wish he could be locked up, but the age of consent is 15, so the only way he could be taken care of is if the parents objected. Alex's dad is psycho, so there is no hope turning to his father. We are still surprised he doesn't seem to care about the arrangement, but since his brain doesn't work right, I guess that's it.
Grant--I just realized I never commented back on what I wanted to say on your post. I teach in a pretty rural area of SC where you'd think those sorts of situations like you describe would be more common. Do they happen? Yes. Are they accepted? Nope. I was talking to a class before class started (a class primarily filled with the 18 to 22 set), and all 18 of the kids in the class stated that they didn't understand why that was not illegal and somebody needed to protect a 15 yr old from a much older adult like that. And CONTRARY to GBM's "I saw it on TV so it must be true" idea of America, not one of them were born again virgin types. They don't seem to think sex between teens is a problem. It's just sex between teens and much older adults that disturbs them.
This reminds me of a book that made the news briefly in (I think) 2002 when the Catholic sex scandal was in full swing. A woman had written a book that was being published by a university press wherein she claimed that people should enjoy satisfying sex lives beginning at age seven, with other children and adults. In an interview, she claimed that sex with a priest could be a very rewarding experience, although she later recanted by saying children shouldn't sleep with adults in a position of authority over them. I think the book got dropped before it was printed due to the timing of the scandal. One detail I remember was the defending remarks made by the university (Minnesota, I think) which claimed four separate experts backed her findings before they scheduled the book for production. I think if you look hard enough, you can find somebody with a Ph.D. to back any position.
Yup, Grant. The beauty and horror of the human race is the diversity of opinions we can all possess. You can find any research to back up any opinion on any psychological, medical, educational, etc matter. Sometimes you have to look at who is saying it. I bet you anything the "experts" backing up the author's opinions were into sexual activities with children themselves.
Well, hell, look at the legal system in Mexico with the "machismo" culture. The judges and legal "experts" there often laugh at the idea of rape and call it another form of romancing the woman. Wooo. Hoo. No wonder my Mexican grandmother thought coming to America sounded so grand and did so.
So, do they not have stautory rape laws in frace or what? If so the girl doesn't have to make a complaint for them to be filed... Ugg! Some parents are so detached it's attrocious.
What does he have to gain? What does she have to lose?
Answer those two questions and it should be pretty obvious what should be done.
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